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What is Church?
Posted by: Jacob Friesen
Church: Gospel Mennonite Winnipeg
Date: July 21st, 2011
Presently I am reading a book in preparation for the Launch 2012 called “Organic Church”. The writer has a very high view of the church but suggests that we need to go back to the basics of what Christ intended. He is not the only one suggesting that maybe we have gotten off the trail somewhere. I invite your discussion on some of the suggestions in the attached video.
I finished Organic Church this week and thought it was excellent. It would make my top ten (top five actually) of “doing church” books.
His followup book was equally good, “organic leadership.” In this one he really continues the first book, because it is unlikely for an organic church to emerge apart from a different way of viewing and practicing leadership.
In western culture we have travelled through a number of leadership models. Most recently the model has been borrowed from business organizations. And you really have to wonder – in its deepest reality, is the church of God a business? And if not, why did we decide that was such a good model to follow?
On the other hand, many businesses and organizations have shed the old model and are starting to look very different: less like a pyramid and more like a family or network. One business consultant talks about the new model like this:
“Leadership is the capacity of the community to bring forth new realities; The leader is a designer (of the learning process), a steward (of the community vision and values) and a teacher (of the ability to learn and grow).” Peter Senge
btw, loved the video!
Joseph Myers wrote two great books on community that aim in a similar direction to Neil Cole. His second one was called “Organic Community,” summary here http://nextreformation.com/?p=1715
Sometimes for these posts I fell like a voice in the wilderness crying out in defense of the church …
Our elders watched the video and had a good discussion around it. The problem I have with it is the same problem I have with so much discussion around this topic. It assumes that having structure takes away from discipleship. The aruguments seems to be “if you have programs and buildings then you don’t have time for ministry”. Sometimes this may be a fair observation. As a pastor I would certainly much rather see people spend their time with people than sitting in a committee meeting. This is why we as a church are trying to have the staff do the administration and the congregation do the ministry.
Having said that, building and programs are just tools. I don’t need to have a car to be a pastor, but having one sure helps. I don’t need to have a computer to be a pastor but I believe I can better do my work because I have one. The church doesn’t need buildings, but I have pastored a church that did not have a building so I know how valuable they really are.
Do we really think that buildings, programs and services are the main issue? I think the issue is not THEM but US. If we are not impacting the world, don’t blame the tools. If you are not reaching your community the fault is not that you just redecorated the kitchen. If I don’t preach a good sermon this Sunday I will not blame my computer or car. The responsibiblity to study and prepare is MINE so the fault is also MINE.
The issue I believe is passion. We have lost our zeal to be the light and salt God called us to be. Let me also say that the modern ‘traditional’ church model is NOT an invention of the west. Having travelled to almost 40 countries, most in the 2/3 world, I can say with absolute certainty that this is not the case. You go to Mongolia or Tanzania or Pakistan and you will see a church that is very similar in structure to the North American church. The difference is the passion.
I don’t know the situation elsewhere but our church is not modeled after a business. We make decision based on vision, not dollars.
Lets stop throwing mud at the bride of Christ and address the real issues. Do we have a buring desire to see the lost come to Christ? Stop blaiming the tools and start using them in the way God wants them to be used.
Thanks Stephen for being willing to be a “voice in the wilderness crying out in defense of the church” – but be assured you are not alone in defending the integrity of the Bride of Christ. While I am not a world-wide traveler (limited to the Americas), in my experience I see God at work in our day using every aspect of modern technology, new methods unheard of before, but also through proven avenues like programs, preaching, and buildings. However, I am deeply grieved by some of the assumptions coming from post-modernity prophets who would have us believe that all the traditional ways of the church are defunct, and are propagating the message that the role of the 21st century believers is that we dismantle the old (as flawed and eschewed as it is) and that we are called to reinvent the Church. Let’s not forget who is in charge. Jesus left is no doubt about who sets the parameters for the extending of the Kingdom – “I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HADES WILL NOT OVERCOME IT.” (Matt. 16: 18) He started this project with some gifted but bumbling fishermen types. Today, despite all the predictions regarding the irrelevancy of the church, He is still raising up men and women who have not lost sight of Christ leading them into the 21st century.
I’m with you Stephen; “Lets stop throwing mud at the bride of Christ and address the real issues. Do we have a burning desire to see the lost come to Christ? Stop blaiming the tools and start using them in the way God wants them to be used.”
LONG LIVE ORGANIC CHURCH?
I removed my previous comment in light of a helpful article sent to me over the weekend by a good friend. It was a good corrective and encouragement to me personally.
I think it might be a healthy balance for us as we sort through what God is trying to say to the church today.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/januaryweb-only/11-41.0.html?start=1
Thanks Jacob — for providing some of your views regarding the Organic Church Movement through the suggested Christianity Today link. You have not stated so, but from the context I assume the book “Organic Church” you are referring to in your opening post is the one written by Neil Cole. As yet I have not read this book, but am more familiar with Frank Viola’s book on the subject “What is an Organic Church.” Reading the CT review doesn’t settle my concerns about “reinventing church.” In fact in reading this CT article, I was intrigued by the link to a further webpage that I believe raises some valid cautions about the Organic Church Movement. The review critiques Cole and Viola and raises cautions that in my opinion pertain to a number of other discussions regarding the new direction of EMMC/GoMission – some of which have been posted on GoMission blogs.
For those wanting to dig deeper, it is worth a read – written by Mike Warren, and entitled “Immature Fruit on the Organic Church Vine” – http://www.christianciv.com/Immature_Organic_Fruit.pdf
Blessings!
Allen, thanks for the response. I was not putting forth my view but inviting discussion and consideration.
In the article that you attached the review of Cole is from pages 1-3. In my reading the author seems supportive of Cole. Is this the way you read it as well? He does have concerns about Viola. I have not heard of or read Viola.
What are the concerns you have from reading Mike’s critique of Cole?
Our objective in raising questions and wanting to explore together how God is working in and through the church is in obedience to the mandate given to us by our constituency.
In Oct. 13, 2007 the General Council gave the Board and staff the following mandate.
“We acknowledge the strategy / approach of the last five years to church planting, community outreach and leadership development needs to be changed to be more effective.
“We expect and mandate the Board, staff to help the regions to find new and creative ways of effective church planting, community outreach and leadership development.
I believe a need for change was recognized. We must discern together what that change is.
For me the change starts in the heart. I believe we get into trouble when we see church planting as an end in itself. It is not. It is a natural result of health. Healthy things grow and growing things reproduce. A healthy church is a growing church and a growing church is a reproducing church.
I don’t have to make my kids grow. If they are healthy they will do that naturally. I also don’t have to make my kids reproduce. When they are mature enough and find the right person that will also happen naturally.
To stretch this analogy a little further, I don’t want my kids to reproduce with anyone they meet. I want them to find someone who shares the faith and values that we have tried hard to instill in them. For me, some of the church planting stuff I read makes me feel like my daughter is getting married to a Hells Angel! It is just a bad fit.
we need to focus on church health – which includes leadership development and community outreach. I say this from experience. When Naomi and I first went to Kuwait we wanted to plant an indigenous church. After all, thats what missionaries do right?. However, what we were offered was to pastor an existing church, one that in 80 years of ministry had not seen a single Kuwaiti come to Christ. My first reaction was “No way! God called us to be fishers of men, not keepers of the aquarium!”
God had to do some work on my attitude. He showed me that a healthy church is a powerful witness. As we focused on working with and not around the existing church things began to happen. We saw the first Kuwaiti convert EVER during our second year. Over time more than 20 new churches were planted, including the one we came to plant initially.
I say this because sometimes I think we get into that “keepers of the aquarium” mindset – that the church will never change so we need to reinvent it in order for growth to occur. I say lets focus on being as healthy, vibrant and passionate as we can possibly be and then look for suitable partners for multiplication – ones that don’t scare us as parents!
Stephen, solid wisdom there! But I have read quite a bit of Neil Cole including books and interviews, and I know he would agree with you
Healthy churches grow and multiply. However, Neil would also say that in life there is a natural cycle of birth and death. Sometimes we try to keep things alive that should be allowed to die so that out of that seed something new can be born. So this requires discernment.
I have found the church health movement a very helpful correction to the church growth movement. But I also worry sometimes that it has been seen as a cure-all — that the right measurement and techniques will save us. We are calling for a season of fasting and prayer locally because we know that it is only the life and wisdom of God that can save us, and a renewed dependence on his Spirit.
I haven’t read the “unhealthy fruit” article yet, but I have yet to come into a church of any size that doesnt have both healthy and unhealthy fruit. And I coudl say the same of denominations. God seems to be content to allow both wheat and tares to grow alongside one another — perhaps this is to train us in discernment? It’s a mystery to me.
The best studies in culture and organizational theory are showing that we need to be working on both ends – revitalize what is existing, and reinvent and innovate new strategies. We’ll find failure and success in both directions, but the future will lie mostly with innovation. The stats on church growth in North America are very discouraging.
Great discussion brothers, I am thankful for your hearts to love and serve Jesus!
By the way, there are various frameworks for thinking about congregational culture, but the one developed by Roxburgh and Romanuk is slanted toward issues of leadership and change. For some the language will be an issue because what they could have called the “adaptive” zone they call the “emergent” zone (following biological models) — but for interests sake here is a summary..
http://nextreformation.com/?p=2727
Allen, missed your comment above — but AMEN! God will work through all venues. If we open our hearts to Him, he will use us.
May he give us discernment (1 Chron. 12:32).
I follow with interest the direction our EMMC conference is going. Stephen Sheane makes some excellent points in regards to “throwing out the baby with the bathwater.” At least that is the gist of what he seems to be saying. Yes, our churches have problems. Yes, the structure could improve. But do we need to wipe the slate clean and start anew? I don’t think so.
I appreciate the leadership in our conference and the seriousness in which they consider the direction in which it is headed. Thanks for steering and directing. But, please do not sink the ship and build a better one. I like the vessel but I’m sure it could be constantly tweeked and improved.
Let me tell you a bit about my local church. Bagot Community Chapel has challenged me so much in my faith. Here I find a down to earth, real group of people who stretch me and give me opportunity to serve. There are many people who I look up to and view as mentors. We are far from perfect and don’t try to act like we are.
The global church and it’s issues should be a concern but not so much in that we lose focus on those around us. Let’s continue righting the wrongs and staying on course. I love the model of church in which I am a part. It’s imperfect and growing. Kinda like me and you.